There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.

Isaac Heller: Hey everyone, this is Isaac. I'm CEO at Trillian, and today on AI, accounting, intelligence, we'll be talking with real people about real things related to AI and the impact on the accounting industry. Stay tuned. Welcome to Accounting Intelligence. Uh, our new podcast. I'm Isaac Keller, CEO, co-founder of Trillian. And I'm so excited today [00:00:30] to welcome Jody Pedder, the radical CPA, VP of tax strategy and evangelism at April. And a good friend. How are you doing, Jody?

Jody Padar: I'm doing good. I'm excited to be here today with you on the on the first podcast. That's awesome.

Isaac Heller: Absolutely. Okay, Jody, we always start these podcasts off with a question. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you love accountants?

Jody Padar: Uh, 100 plus, I don't know. Can I go off the charts there?

Isaac Heller: I don't know, you're an accountant, you're a CPA. [00:01:00] So, uh. Anyway, tell tell us. Give us a number and tell us why.

Jody Padar: I mean, I think it's a ten, right? It's or a ten plus. Right. So I love accountants. That's why I do what I do. Everyone always asks like why I'm so engaged, why I'm so involved because I love our profession. And I would even say even beyond accountants, I love CPAs, um, because I, you know, I spent a lot of time working hard to get [00:01:30] my CPA credential in that designation. And as I see people leaving the profession, and it pains me because, like, I really think CPAs are really cool people, and I think they kind of get a bad rap. And I think, um, it's not their fault. A lot of it is just the business model and the way things have been done in years, and it just kind of hasn't caught up with the technology and the way that the world has changed. Um, but really, it like everyone asks, like why I do what I do and it's like to make the world a better place for CPAs and [00:02:00] accounting professionals. It's not about the tech, it's about having the opportunity to have a better life. And the business model, innovation, the tech, all that stuff comes with it. But at the end of the day, it's about letting accountants and CPAs go home on time or go home early, right. And utilizing the technology and things to do the work for them so that they can actually have the lives that they deserve to live and, you know, be profitable and be able to to be successful.

Isaac Heller: Amazing. I love it. And that's definitely [00:02:30] a ten. You talk about making accounting and CPA a better place. Um, I know you definitely make it a more fun place. Jody, I would consider you an influencer, if I may. I mean, you've got, you know, almost a million followers throughout the different channels. How did you and you were just in this distinct, rare select category of what I would call accounting and CPA influencers. How did you get there? Right. Maybe even for someone listening to build an audience, how did you [00:03:00] how did you do it?

Jody Padar: Well, first, I always like to say I'm the Kim Kardashian of accounting software. Um, but how did I become an influencer? I think what's important to know is it's not just about talking content, it's about having the depth and knowledge to have an idea, to be solid with that idea and to share those thoughts as disruptive as they are, as not mainstream as they are, and to have people respond to them. So [00:03:30] part of the reason I have the status that I do is because there's depth there. It's not just spreading content and everybody else's content, it's really looking at what's happening in your environment and making an opinion on it. Maybe a good opinion may not be maybe, uh, you know, and taking a stand with it and sharing it. And how did I get to where I am? Well, when I started, first of all, there was a lot less noise. Um, 2008, 2009, Twitter was just becoming and accountants were basically told, don't [00:04:00] be on social media. You know, you'll you can't make those tax, you know, opinions on social media because they'll come back and you know, you'll get in trouble. Right. And so when I started there was a lot less noise. So there was an opportunity. Whereas today it's a lot harder just because there's there's so much competing content out there. Right. Um, but I think it's really about thought leadership and true thought leadership. Meaning don't regurgitate what everybody else is saying, um, have an opinion on it and, [00:04:30] and be okay with that opinion because you're not going to lie because true influencers aren't the middle of the road, right? They they have a really strong stance.

Jody Padar: They either like something or they don't. Um, because if you're in the middle, there's no that's not an opinion. That's like being with everybody else. Right? So so just own that opinion. And then again, you have to have the technical power as to substantiate it and to understand why you have it. And I think with most accounting professionals, [00:05:00] they're so afraid of making a mistake that they don't own their voice and they don't share their voice, and their part of it is the profession as a whole. And when I started to, I, I was working for myself. And that makes a big difference, right? Because when you're working for yourself, you can own that, that PR voice. When you're working for someone else. You don't always have that freedom and flexibility to do that. But so I would say that's probably two why most accounting professionals I always say, um, they're [00:05:30] lurkers, not likers. They won't even like posts, but yet you know that they're digesting them and they're talking to you about them, but they won't even put their name on it to like it because they're afraid someone's going to look at them and see that they have an idea or something that is not is not mainstream. And they're they're afraid of that, which is unfortunate.

Isaac Heller: I hear it, okay, I love it. So I'm here in debt taking a side. Right. So you kind of you kind of got to push one way or another. Are there any other specifics [00:06:00] like frequency of posting. Are there um, types of posts, maybe videos versus long ferm? Versus snippets commenting versus your original post. Uh, Twitter versus LinkedIn, like any specifics if you want to, you know, ride this creator economy.

Jody Padar: So I think part of it is consistency, right? Like from the day I started, I always started blogging every two weeks. So I, you know, I've had uh, like when I really began and I was writing [00:06:30] for accounting today, it was every two weeks. So you need that consistency, right? Um, I don't think the the channel matters so much is it's like, just find a place that you like and work within that channel. So like Twitter is very much a cocktail conversation. Linkedin is more longer posts and different. So and you have to communicate in the channel the way like the channel communicates. But I think the biggest thing that influencers miss is they don't listen. So if you think [00:07:00] about regular conversation, the biggest or the people who have the best conversations are the people who listen the most and then respond, too many people are just posting like junk out there and they're not listening to the conversation. The more you listen and the less you post, actually, the more, um, the better your post will be and the more impact you'll have. Because like any other good conversation, the listeners are usually the ones that get the most insights. Got it. And that's probably [00:07:30] not a traditional thing. Yeah.

Isaac Heller: Can I share one tip that I learned from you? So. Sure. Um, I, I once, you know, I once there's a few people that I followed online with big followings and other areas, really tech and entrepreneurship, which is my area. And one time I met one of them at a conference who was always talking brilliantly and like loudly about these different concepts and ideas and theories. And I met him and he didn't say a word. He was quiet. I was so [00:08:00] disappointed. It turned out that his superpower was just kind of typing and being online. And when I met Jodie, I felt like not only was it real, but he was even more fun in person. And so I think that, you know, for people that really want to build an audience, it's not just the depth of the content and stuff, it's the depth in yourself. You know, great people get out there, you know, don't be afraid. And and ultimately, I think you'll shine in social media because in a perfect world, it should just be a reflection of who you are and your [00:08:30] personality and your nature. So that was a really cool thing to learn about you. Um, okay. You talked about social media and you talked about 2008. You were ahead of the curve and nobody else was doing it.

Isaac Heller: And all the CPA firms were like, ah, I'm not sure I can tell you right now that every CPA firm, every CPA, the big four, everyone is trying to figure out how to crack social media and trying to figure out influencers and live video and, [00:09:00] you know, all of the social media frames. So they're they're there. But it took many years. It reminds me of something that's been happening in the past few years. Right. So, Jody, you and I. I think it was January of 2020. We went to a big CPA conference in San Diego. It was the last time I saw a beach in two years after that. And and we talked about I in January 2020, and you and I were already talking about it for quite a [00:09:30] while at that point. This was right before the pandemic. Um, I is is now in the forefront of the day. Maybe walk us through big picture. You've been in this a long time. You've been at the forefront of innovation. Um, how AI has changed over the past few years and maybe even like, let's call it, let's call it pre pandemic and then the pandemic era and post pandemic, just give us a sense of the sequence of how it's evolved.

Jody Padar: So I think AI has been around for [00:10:00] a while. It just hasn't been like everybody talking about it. Right? Like and I a lot of times it depends on what AI is. If it's machine learning like because it's a big category. Right. So if you think pre-pandemic it was really kind of buried in tools and you didn't really know about it. Um, we were just starting to talk about what I was and how it was like coding transactions and things like that. Right. That was kind of pre-pandemic. Right. And then now it's like [00:10:30] everywhere. And when it's everywhere, I think it's because part of it is it's everywhere in the mainstream as well. Like, um, I always remember talking, people would say, oh, I don't know what AI is. And I'd be like, oh, do you use Netflix? And like, everybody understands that, right? And it's kind of like now it's like, okay, now we're at the next level. And when we talk about like where AI is going, I think there's a bigger opportunity to see what its potential is. Whereas I think [00:11:00] kind of pre-pandemic, you really like maybe the techies really knew what it was capable of.

Jody Padar: But I don't think mainstream America or mainstream accountants really had a concept of what what it could do or where it where it would go. And now I think with like ChatGPT and everything else. Now when you see it, because there's something tangible there, it's really hard when they talk about it. But now when you see it do things, you're like, oh, wow, like, this is where it's going, and this is where it will go with [00:11:30] us. And I think, I think that's now where we are in the world where. And I'll say it's still not widely distributed in the accounting profession. Right. I would still say you're still on the innovators. You're not really in like in middle accountants. Right. But on the innovators now they actually see things and they're like, oh wow, this is really doing something. I really can't see how this is going to change my job in the future. I really can use it to benefit me every day, which is cool. Whereas like pre-pandemic, like [00:12:00] it was like back with the tech people, nobody really understood what it did or how it worked.

Isaac Heller: Right? Yeah. No. It's interesting. Jody, how ChatGPT it was not just a moment to, you know, for people to play AI, it almost diffused or lowered the stigma of AI because it was so tangible, because you're, you know, nine year old daughter could play with it now. It meant that it was actually happening. [00:12:30] So everyone always had it in their heart or in their mind or, you know, crazy people like Isaac and Jody were saying, this is coming. But now with ChatGPT, it got more real. Have you seen give me like one example or a couple examples of one thing, AI in accounting that you've seen lately that was so cool or blew your mind, right? Whether it was a piece of tech or an idea or a feature, you know, give us a little a little insight there.

Jody Padar: So I, I think it has to do with just [00:13:00] the ability of how smart it's getting. Um, and it's not completely smart yet. Right. Like, so I, I think I'm gonna preface it with like, not everything is completely smart yet, but when you see, um, when you can feed something into ChatGPT and it comes out and it's like, I don't know, 90% there, it's pretty cool, right? And when you think about even like at April. Right, like, so we're teaching models how to read [00:13:30] forms, instructions. And when we see what the output is and it's it's learning faster than we thought it would. That's really cool. Right. So when you when you see things like that happening, you're like, oh wow. Now it's it's finally getting there when you see it. Actually, I'm trying to think of just a really good example of of what I've like, where I've actually used it from an accounting standpoint. Most of the time. I'm honestly most of the time I'm using it from a marketing [00:14:00] and a writing standpoint. It just because that's my every day. But I guess too, when I think about like some of the specific tools, when you think about like closed software or something like that. Right. And you see, uh, tools that are starting to redefine how you're going to do processes from an accounting perspective. That's what's mind blowing. Me. It's not necessarily even the the putting something in chat and getting it out. It's seeing new innovative [00:14:30] tools that are thinking about the process of accounting differently. And I think that's that's what's exciting me. It's not just like feeding a bank statement into ChatGPT and having it come back with, you know, out a CSV file that now you can import into Xero or something like that. Right? Like those are what I see everyday accountants doing. But when I get like a backstage pass and I see some of the tools that are being built and the. Opportunity of how they're rethinking, like the process [00:15:00] of doing accounting work. That's the exciting stuff. And not everyone has privy to that. Okay.

Isaac Heller: So yeah. Okay. So so when I hear that I got to get I got to get privy to it, you know. Wait, am I privy to it? Jody.

Jody Padar: I'm probably not going to talk about it on, uh, no. Uh.

Isaac Heller: Okay. So, Jodie, Jodie's got there's some secret sauce happening at at April with Jodie, I got that. That's the tax stuff, you know, but maybe like, more broadly [00:15:30] macro Zoom out, you talk about just it'll kind of change the way we do things. Is it the firm client relationship that you're talking about? Is it our individual relationship with how we do taxes. Like maybe maybe unpack an area that you see change happening. And I just Jodie, I also think it's interesting, like the AI has already come to marketing and content and sales and like I rewrite emails all the time with ChatGPT. [00:16:00] Right. Obviously that's coming. First accounting, it's a little harder for us to define what I hear you saying. Like it's getting smarter, it's getting smarter, it's getting smarter. And again, that's what accounting is. It's about getting smarter, more accurate. It's not necessarily a whiz bang, you know, magic wand. But um, in terms of the business models, like how are those going to change? What's something to see that we're seeing on the horizon?

Jody Padar: So I think when we think about business models that, um, what's happening in the profession as a whole [00:16:30] is the amount of productized service offerings for accounting, specific things that are happening in the world. Right? So when you see the landscape of accounting changing, right, like it's not just one firm or like so if you think about the old world, you had small firms and you had big firms, right? And you had midsize firms. That was pretty much the accounting landscape right now. Where did you work? Have this. So I had I grew up in [00:17:00] a midsize firm right like that. That was my initial few jobs. And then I owned a small firm. Right. But we were a mighty firm. I always say we were a small but mighty firm because we were really innovative. Right. But I think the other piece of it is, is, um, now you have small firms, midsize firms, big firms. You have technology companies that are truly like trying to replicate firms, but they're not. So you have like the pilots and the benches of the world. Right. Um, you have fintechs coming in that are trying to do [00:17:30] accounting because they can make money on it. So they're selling credit cards and oh, yeah, they're doing accounting on the side. Right. So that's a whole new space. You have legal firms such as like Rocket Lawyer and like Legalzoom that are now doing tax. You have Intuit who is becoming a platform where they're doing like accounting. They're really a platform now I wouldn't say for accounting professionals, but they're hiring their own like team of accountant, you know, of Intuit [00:18:00] accounting professionals who are are doing it right. So that that's happening and you have like I'll say, like the tax files of the world and like basically where it's like the Uber for accounting professionals, right? So when you look at that accounting landscape as a whole, like your competition isn't your firm next door, it's not even your firm across the country you have 50th May not be 50% yet, but it's going to be 50% pretty soon because [00:18:30] those technology companies grow faster than like smaller firms.

Jody Padar: Right. And that's what accounting firms are competing with. And they have and they might not have figured it out just yet. But when you put our AI on top of kind of that tech infrastructure, like those firms are going to grow really, really fast. Now, humans are really important in the mix. Right. And CPAs have always had those professional relationships and they've always known how [00:19:00] to do that. But I would argue that the old school firm partners haven't really done a really good job of transferring that how to have a relationship down, like to the next gen. And so those old school firms that used to have those really tight relationships don't have them the way they believe that they have them. And I think that there's kind of a they think that they're stronger than they actually are. And so when you see that disruption happening in the marketplace, you wonder [00:19:30] what accounting is going to look like in three years and five years, and private equity is coming in too, right? So even when like aside from the tech players and like these old school, like now you have extra money coming in and private equity is coming because they want to put money in and they want to take money out. They're not coming because they want to help accountants. Like, that's right.

Isaac Heller: Who's been given an example of someone, a firm that's been acquired recently that's like publicly out there or a few of them.

Jody Padar: Um, I don't know, like, there's a bunch of [00:20:00] big ones off like that have been acquired, right? Or like they've been split, right? They've been part of the private equity coming in. And then they split the firm up. So and it's like, it seems like every other month there's one in accounting today that's listed of a big firm like this. Right. And then again you have the private equity even coming in the the midsize firms and kind of connecting them together. So when you see that landscape happening then you wonder how fast automation is going to [00:20:30] move the market. Because it's not we're no longer just waiting for accountants to adopt technology, which has been painful, like it took them how long to get to the cloud and half of them still aren't there yet, right? But when you have tech firms coming in, you have VC coming in and or, and, um, private equity coming in. That money is going to move the market way faster. And now the automation has finally caught up. So so that's the the disruption that I don't think most accountants realize [00:21:00] is coming because they still think they're competing with the firm next door. And maybe they think, oh, well, I'm maybe I'm confusing competing now with the firm across the country. I don't think that's your competition anymore.

Isaac Heller: Interesting. Okay, so I heard, uh, old school partners making a lot of money. Private equity coming in. Automation is there is there a playbook that these private equity firms have, or is it just like we think that these firms can be more efficient, therefore we're going to invest?

Jody Padar: Um, [00:21:30] I think that they realize the partners make a lot of money, right. So that there's obviously a. Yeah. And they realize that the accounting profession hasn't changed in so many years. So there's an opportunity to automate it and make it faster. And they've done it with other businesses, not just accountants. When you think about like vets and like, um, health centers and things like that, right? So they kind of know how to do it, right, or they think they know how to do it, but I and and the profession is retiring. Right. So you have [00:22:00] all these old guys who want an exit and the next gen doesn't want to buy them out. And they had, I'll say, poor retirement planning. And so because I don't know if you know the way old school firms kind of what they do is they just merge and they change. They kind of trade retirement benefits. Right. Like they're so and now the opportunity with private equity coming in, these guys can get you know, they can get a payout. And so then they can kind of interesting. They got it. So so there's [00:22:30] all of this stuff happening in the landscape as a whole. And I think that's the exciting thing to me is to see this opportunity of how it's all going to really disrupt what what an accounting firm is in the next 3 to 5 years.

Isaac Heller: Right. I just love how it's, you know, how these firms work. They do it with the veterinarians and the accountants, right? It's like it's like, uh, you know, and then I'm just looking at your your cows in the background doing their selfies. So we've [00:23:00] got everything covered here. So let's, let's have some fun with, uh, economics. Let's be, let's be like, uh, economists or, you know, I don't know, private equity advisors. If today I spend a dollar on accounting, let's say I. Isaac, I'm an individual who spends money on accounting or even a corporation that spends a dollar on accounting. Let's say today $0.50 goes to my software package and $0.50 goes [00:23:30] to my accounting advisor or preparer. Right. Who helps me hypothetically with the change in these business models with the advent of AI, does that mix change? Does it go more towards software? Does it go more towards the service? And then we can even go deeper. Does the service become more about high level advice? Let's say it stays the same and the service becomes more about that high level opinion, as opposed to charging someone for your [00:24:00] time to read a document or enter in a form. Right. How? Let's let's use that dollar equation. Like where does the economics go in the next ten years?

Jody Padar: Well, I've always said that your technology should be part of your cost of goods sold. So. And that's again, that was a new fangled belief, right? Like when I said that like no one's like, what do you mean blah blah blah blah, like um, hold on Jody.

Isaac Heller: Because Jody if, if, if that was in in gap if your tech was [00:24:30] actually part of your Cogs, let's be real, none of these tech companies would have valuations like they do, right? Which is which the gross margins would be completely different, which is just it's a funny story. So maybe maybe you were ahead of your time there, but, uh, and they make you capitalize 20% of it anyway. Okay. So but but here's the thing, right?

Jody Padar: It's a replacement of labor. Uh, honestly, in a professional services firm such as an accountant, it is truly, uh, a replacement of labor. And it's a good replacement of labor because we don't have [00:25:00] enough accountants anyways. So everybody's complaining about the talent shortage. They can't find accountants. Whatever. So now, like, you should be looking at your spend and instead of, um, and people don't like that because they don't want to say, well, you know, I don't want to replace a person with technology, but ultimately, guess what? That person, first of all, you're probably not even going to be able to replace them anyways because you're not going to be able to hire them. You're not going to be able to find them because there's nobody to do the work. But if as a professional service firm, [00:25:30] you now saw your technology costs as part of your cost of goods sold as part of whatever it is you deliver, right, that productized service offering that you deliver, it makes a lot more sense. It really does. And then you, as the person should really be one piece of the deliverable, which is the the advisory services that sit on top of that technology cost. And, you know, that was a radical idea I actually [00:26:00] documented in my book, like almost whatever, 2015, 2016. Right. So for for that long I've been talking about it because accountants were always slow to adopt new technologies because they didn't want to pay for it, but they forgot. And this goes back to the business model, right? But they forgot that if they paid $20 for software, it saved them an hour of time.

Jody Padar: And they forgot that that hour of labor actually cost them $50, not $20. But if you bill by the hour, that kind [00:26:30] of messes up your business model, right? So that's why accountants don't want to not be, because that's where pricing actually kind of disrupts the whole accounting profession business model, because it prohibits innovation, because you don't want to invest in technology. Because if you're billing by the hour now all of a sudden that kind of messes up your metrics, right? So, so that that's what's been holding the profession back for years. And they have to rethink pricing. And they have to and that's the disruption. And and [00:27:00] again, people always say, oh you're a technologist. No I'm really not. I'm really more about practice management. And the innovation in the business model has to change because technology disrupts everything else, because you can't build two minutes. And when you talk about AI, AI is like, how do you build a -two seconds or whatever, right. Because it with the cloud it was, how do you build two minutes? Well, now how do you build like, you know, [00:27:30] four hours worth of research that now kind of laid it all. It gave it back to you and it laid it out for you. Right. Like, well, you have to rethink your pricing model because it doesn't work. You can't you can't do it based on the old way. It just doesn't.

Isaac Heller: Work. I'm with you. So I feel like I feel like it's still somewhere around 50 over 50. In that analogy, just the model shifts so the advisory becomes higher level. The software can do more. Also, Jody, I just want to say things that if you want to, [00:28:00] if you want to talk about the next thing, right. Because what's going to happen now is there's going to be there's already a backlash against tech, you know, in big tech, right? I'm a tech entrepreneur. I don't feel it because we're like the underdog. You know I truly am. But there's that tech backlash. And now with AI you're going to have another wave of tech backlash. Whether it's oh, it's not safe enough or, oh, it's going to take over our lives or oh, it's going to fight wars against ourselves or whatever it is. And what's interesting is it relates [00:28:30] to accounting is, okay, well, accounting is like this and it's going to be automated by the technology. Well hold on, I've got, you know, tech companies also have people that do stuff to build the tech. Okay. And one of the biggest areas of AI application is within areas like GitHub and coding. Right. Which is super interesting. I think people don't realize that like okay, it's not there's not just like this giant tech's going to take over the world and then everything's going to be like 95% [00:29:00] tech. And you know, one little guy who answers the tax questions like tech itself is like we we provide, we code, we do things too, just like accountants do things too. Like AI is going to have an impact on all these industries. And it's not just going to shift from one place to another. It's going to just kind of fall on this line of progression of automation and efficiency and stuff like that. So, um, don't get too mad at us because we have our own, you know, the next wave is is [00:29:30] coming for us. And then. Well.

Jody Padar: I think the heart this dates me, right. But like I went into I was working before the internet. Right. So like, you know, like I graduated from school in 94. Right. And I think it was like, you know, AOL came out, I don't know, 95, 96 whatever, like email. Right. Like that. So like I worked before there was email, right? I worked before there was truly the internet where you could do research. We used [00:30:00] to go like, look in these tissue paper books to go look up stock transactions. Right. People, people like today, the millennials. And like they don't remember that. And like, again, that dates me, but. The job that we do today is not that the job that we did, and it didn't erase us. It didn't make us go away. When you look at social media, everyone said social media like, you know, was going to disrupt marketing. No. Now there's like ten more jobs of social media people that go with marketing, right? So like it's all about [00:30:30] embracing it and figuring out that we don't know what we don't know. And like, let's figure out how we're going to fit with it in the future and not be so scared of it. And I think that's hard for like a lot of people to do, like because they get so. But if you look at even CPAs, how much change they've adjusted to in the last 30 years that they're capable of adjusting to the change that's going to come. Like CPAs are smart people, accountants are smart people. It's not that they're they just have to be open to it. They adjust to tax [00:31:00] law changes every year. So why people think accountants aren't like can't change is kind of like, I don't know. It's not the right way to look at an accountant.

Isaac Heller: The I agree. And also we forget that like Excel everyone bashes on Excel. But it's like this super powerful piece of technology and always has been. And it's not. It's not so simple to excel at or master. It's it's funny, I think. Jody, um, since you dated yourself, I'll date myself a little bit. You know, I graduated [00:31:30] in oh seven. And as I think about it, I think it's also about reframing, you know? What industry you work in. Meaning you can still be an accountant, but in a but accounting can be much more in the future about being a technologist or tech enabled or tech savvy. Right? Whereas before it may have been, I don't know about the trusted relationships or the happy hours, you know, and stuff like that. So I think of it when I, you know, my first job [00:32:00] in oh eight actually, which again, zero eight was a fun year to start working. It was at a travel agency. It was at a travel agency. Right. And we would.

Jody Padar: They don't even exist anymore.

Isaac Heller: And yeah, we would print out itineraries and put them in a folder and mail them to the guests. And we would book everything individually. And we had our clients and, you know, it was just so interesting to, to to see that evolve. And then one day I looked at the computer [00:32:30] that the travel agent was using, and it was a blue screen, looked like MS-DOS. And I said, what's that? And they said, that's our booking system, and it was called Saber and Saber. I was living in Dallas at the time. Saber was down the street. Uh, it just happened to be, you know, it was a former American Airlines and IBM kind of spin out. And I just thought to myself, I work at a travel agency, but I like the travel industry, and so I can work at a travel tech company and be in the travel [00:33:00] industry. And I learn more about the technology side of the travel industry. Right. And so, you know, then I ended up at that company doing a lot of accounting, like revenue recognition and other types of accounting exercise. And so you can always that's the thing is you can always pivot off of those things. You just reframe the area that you're in. You don't have to be an accountant who just does this. You can be at a tech enabled accounting or even a technologist who just likes accounting. So anyway, I I'm [00:33:30] totally with you, Jody. Like, you know, if you've seen enough of these things, you just bet on yourself. Yeah.

Jody Padar: Well, and I think that's the real the reality of anything today is like, you have to keep yourself upskilled so that you know what's happening in the world so that you're ready to evolve and pivot as the world moves around you. Like, gone are the days where you're going to be in the same job for 30 years. It's not realistic. The jobs that are [00:34:00] going to exist in five years are not the jobs that even exist today. So and to me, that's exciting. That's the piece that I, I never understand because like, I don't know, do people really want to do the same thing every day for 30 years?

Isaac Heller: It's I hope.

Isaac Heller: I hope not, because guess what? If you want to, it won't last 30 years. I can tell you that. Right? So what do you what what what do you say? Okay, let's, let's let's end it with a couple of questions. Right. So what do you say now [00:34:30] to those detractors in your industry, in our industry in accounting. Right. How do you talk with those people. Do you who are just resistant. Right. Do you just ignore them now because you've been telling them over and over again, do you try to work with them and sit with them? Um, do people change? Do people adjust? Do they see the light? I mean, how do you work with that? Because you must go to some of these conferences talking about what you see is so clear and so obvious. But then you go to that other session [00:35:00] or that other booth and they're talking about something completely ten years ago that may not exist in a couple of years. How do you how do you work with an individual or a company that's in that mindset?

Jody Padar: So I try I try to relate it to something very tangible that they can see. So like, I love the new app pie. I don't know if you've played with it, but it's really like the human version of Alexa. How do you spell it? Like it's like your new best friend? It's pi. It's pi. Like okay, math pi okay. Yeah. Pi. Right. So [00:35:30] like it's an app on your phone, you can talk to it and it like talks back to you. So like you can tell it about your day and it'll tell you like how is your day. It's actually it's it it's more dare I say this, but it's more interested in your conversation than your spouse is. Right. So it you can just talk to it however you want to talk to it and it response. It's like your new best friend, right?

Isaac Heller: Oh this is perfect. I just want to talk.

Isaac Heller: And I don't want anybody to talk back. Great.

Jody Padar: And so anyway [00:36:00] so you can so that's something tangible right. So if you're talking to a professional and it's something in the world that you that now exists that you can now see how it evolved from Alexa or Siri or something. Right? Right. It's kind of that next iteration of it. Then compare that to what accounting technology is going to be, because it'll help them see how it's going to evolve. So I think today most accountants are kind of stuck in the tools that kind of work but don't. And they spend more [00:36:30] time fixing the tool than not or fixing what came out of it. But you have to be able to show them the vision of where it's going to be and how it's going to be there pretty quickly. So by to me, the analogy is, is like, look, look where Alexa and Siri were and now look at pie and how smart pie is. And that's where the accounting tools are going to be. So to help them just kind of envision where it's going, um, I think is really important. And then everyone's in it for what's in it for them.

Jody Padar: So like, [00:37:00] I think most accountants always feel overwhelmed with the amount of work that they have or that the work that's coming. And to help them understand that by utilizing these tools, they shouldn't have to worry about necessarily hiring more people, that a lot of this work is just going to get automated so that they can actually spend time doing the things that they want to do, or thinking about the things they want to think about. So, you know, I think at the end of the day, people are more concerned about themselves than they are about the [00:37:30] accounting profession. So however you can make it relate to their job, right? The more you can make it relate to them, the happier like, the more they'll buy into it, right? And then get them excited about the future, which is to me like, that's the cool stuff is like, what's next? What's coming? And if they don't believe you, you can say, okay, well, like, let's, let's make a bet on it in three years. Let's see what's going to happen.

Isaac Heller: Very nice. Well, I.

Isaac Heller: Think that's what it all comes down to a [00:38:00] little bit of depth, uh, your personality, you getting people excited about the future. And, uh, if they follow, I think they'll end up on the right side. So, Jody, I really, really appreciate the time. Uh, today, the debut, let's call it. And, um, you know, thank you. Thank you for joining. Uh, and also, thank you for your friendship over the years. It's been a really good time.

Jody Padar: Well, thank you for having me.

Isaac Heller: So, Jody, uh, if people want to get in touch with you, how or where can they contact you?

Jody Padar: Well, I'm pretty much everywhere, but [00:38:30] probably the easiest place to find me is on LinkedIn. Just add Jody Pader connect with me there.

Isaac Heller: Amazing. And, uh, guys, just click to subscribe to our podcast Accounting Intelligence and we'll keep feeding you the good stuff.